Healing or stumbling around in the dark?

I‘ve been in troubleshooting mode since Thursday when I bumped up my methylation supplements to 5 mg B-12 and 4 mg folate. For the first time, I also took all of my folate and B12 right after breakfast instead of spreading it out over the day. My energy was great for a three-hour meeting and then after lunch I got lightheaded. While it faded a little, it was pretty constant until bedtime. It’s an oppressive lightheadedness that makes it hard to concentrate or remember anything.  It even made it difficult for me to nap.

The next day I cut my B12 and folate down to 1/5 of Thursday’s dose, but I was still lightheaded.

At first, I thought I might have created a potassium deficiency by over-driving methylation. Supplementing potassium and eating high-potassium foods, however, did not have any effect and I was disgusted by the taste of potassium chloride in water.

Then, I found this bit written by Freddd on Phoenix rising:

The “dizzy and lightheaded” is a generally a good sign with taking mb12. It’s on the road to healing based on the experience of many.

Today, I took 2 mg B-12 and 1.6 mg folate a few hours apart and got the same lightheaded/confusion reaction… and then took 100 mg niacin which stopped it cold.

Now, I know for sure I was experiencing a startup reaction and I can also see that there is an accumulation of these substances because when I first started these amounts did not bother me. As I consider what dosages might make sense going forward,  this page has a lot of discussion about dosing on it, here is Freddd’s recipe for B12 startup for people with big reactions and here’s general startup reaction info.

While researching I also came across this mention of the other form of B12 (adenosylcobalamin) recommended by Freddd:

Also, don’t forget the other half of the b12 equation, AdoCbl. That can often get rid of afternoon fade and lack of exercise tolerance and so on.

THAT sounds irresistible.

I’ve got too much going on at the same time, however, to do much more than stumble around in the dark like this, relying on trial and error. Here’s a general update:

  • Last week I completed my 7th round and without ALA it was relatively easy as I had hoped. I took 75 mg of DMSA every four hours. Until I’ve worked out my supplement issues I think I will continue to avoid ALA.
  • I completed two weeks on a very strict low sulfur/thiol and low folic acid diet. My metabolism and digestive system feels calmer.
  • My endurance and energy are up – enough that I played a little soccer with the kids in the yard on two consecutive Friday evenings and injured myself both times. Might have broken my wrist last night and took some Percocet.
  • Symptoms of exercise intolerance and pushing my activity limits may have faded a little. I’m talking about the aftereffects here.
  • My sense of smell has sharpened a lot.
  • My pee has darkened and become a little smelly and I noticed yesterday pretty strong body odor after I injured myself. Got out of the shower this morning and still smelled so I got back in for a second round. Also have a few pimples on my face. I think these are supposed to be detox symptoms related to iodine supplementation.
  • Have had this strange sensation that my body energy has improved (less hypoglycemic) but my brain chemistry has not kept pace. Naps after lunch are helping. Maybe cutting vitamin E will help also.
  • Just learned that I need to separate my vitamin C and iodine supplementation by two hours because vitamin C converts iodine to iodide – thanks Viking!

Here’s what I’m eating – listed as combinations that I enjoy:

  • bacon and spaghetti squash
  • acorn squash and butter
  • yams covered with cinnamon and mixed with coconut flakes
  • chicken thighs with skin and little chunks of ginger
  • artichoke hearts
  • beef brisket
  • roasted turkey
  • diced zucchini sautéed in butter with sweet corn
  • lamb chops
  • ground turkey
  • coconut flakes mixed with cinnamon and cayenne pepper
  • shrimp

That’s about it, I don’t have much variety and hope to add a couple more things. Definitely will try butternut squash soon.

 My notes:

Round 7 (2.5 days) – 75 mg DMSA every 4 hours, total chelation days to date: 18.5

  • Monday, April 29: increased to 4 mg methyl B12 and 3.2 mg metafolin. Very active day. Iodine bumped up to 10 mg.
  • Tuesday, April 30: another very active day and exhausted at the end.
  • Wednesday, May 1: increasing zinc to 75 mg, another very active day, wiped out at the end. Used 50 mg 5HTP at bedtime.
  • Thursday, May 2 (off): increased methyl B12 to 5 mg and became very lightheaded in the afternoon.
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  • avatar

    Eric May 7, 2013, 3:53 pm

    Today is my second day using a 3 mg Dibencozide.  I took it  after waking at the same time with 6.25 mg iodoral and 125 mg inositol hexanicotinate.  I was groggy until breakfast and now I feel rather balanced.  The intensity I experienced yesterday when I took 250 mcg methyl B12  and 400 mcg metafolin together with the Dibencozide is gone.  I may  take 125 mcg  methyl B12 in the afternoon to see if I can smooth out my afternoon crash.

  • avatar

    Excpat Viking May 5, 2013, 4:15 pm

    In case that you don’t already know it, niacin is a recommended supplement when you do iodine.
    I take one of these per day: http://www.iherb.com/Optimox-Corporation-ATP-Cofactors-90-Tablets/23908

    But I am on 50 mg iodoral, so you may want to take 1/4 since you are on 12.5.
     
     

    • avatar

      Eric May 5, 2013, 6:55 pm

      hmmm, I had forgotten about niacin being an iodine cofactor. that is confusing since Ben Lynch says taking niacin and methylation supplements together is like stepping on the gas and the brake at the same time… on the other hand, you are not taking true niacin with inositol hexanicotinate. I suppose I could do an experiment to find out whether it behaves the same way as niacin by taking some the next time I get lightheaded from b12/folate!

      • avatar

        Expat Viking May 5, 2013, 7:37 pm

        “that is confusing ”

        Well, that’s how it goes……There are lots of opinions and views out there. I have done my fair share of trial and error with supplements and at the same time tried to make sense of what is happening by reading up. And it is quite common that people that I think add relevant info also have violent disagrements. I really like Cutler, but he is often quite dismissive of others that I also like (Yasko and the Iodine people, among others).

        We are really on our own here. But maybe it is not such a bad thing that we start taking ownership of our own health issues instead of blindly trusting “experts”……

        • avatar

          Eric May 6, 2013, 2:42 pm

          I have to agree and I took half my iodine with inositol hexanicotinate this morning. I think it made me groggy probably from the inositol and now I’m thinking I may try to divide my iodine up after dinner and close to bedtime. that will help me avoid mixing it with vitamin C also.

          Did hours of reading yesterday in the Phoenix Rising site and think I understand the methylation start up much better now and see why you’ve been encouraging me. I’ll blog about that soon because I think it’s really important.

          Today, I started trying to make methylation work again with 400 mcg folate, 250 mcg mB12 and 3 mg Dibencozide. I could not get the source naturals locally so I’m starting with Country Life…

          I did not mention it earlier but I was using the MetaFolin as a lozenge. That may have been part of my problem.

          Thanks again!

  • avatar

    Expat Viking May 5, 2013, 12:27 am

    “don’t forget the other half of the b12 equation, AdoCbl”

    I added that one after about two months, but you do seem to be on the turbo version, so here is the recommended one:
    http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Dibencozide-Coenzymated-B-12-60-Tablets/2454

    I take two a week. But again, go slow! Try one for 5-10 min, then spit it out. I got very warm and also rapid heartbeat the first few times.

    My take on your reactions is that you really need these supplements. You know about as much as I do by now, so it should be no surprise that there are some significant reactions when the
    metylation starts to work. Remember that your body has been lacking these things for many years and now that you are supplying them, it is a BIG change. It is all good, but your whole system is working flat out to fix all the things that it has not been able to fix for a long time.

    When you say that you are ” lightheaded”, does that mean that you feel like you should rest, i.e. that it is difficult to stay awake? In my case, I would feel great for a few hours and then it would be like I hit a wall and I really had to rest. For a few weeks, I slept 12 hours a day. But it was GREAT sleep!

    Also, you may want to try the B6 again. As you know, it is sort of downstream from B12 and folate, so you may be able to tolerate it now. Or a bit later.
    Finally, remember that you have done quite well. Some people get anger issues with small amounts and you have made it up to meaningful doses. Now, I understand that it may be difficult to accept the “lightheaded” thing, but please consider that this may be a sign that you are finally healing and that maybe you should accept that you need to lower your level of activity for a few weeks. As always, just my view…. 

    • avatar

      Eric May 5, 2013, 3:02 pm

      thanks Viking, that’s very helpful! I think it is a good idea to try B-6 again. it also got me thinking I should divide my methylation doses with more time in between maybe breakfast and dinner.

      the lightheadedness I get is not the sleepy sort. in fact, when I take a nap with it, it’s even disruptive to sleeping. it is a little like being high without the pleasurable aspect, makes it very hard to think or remember anything. I’ll go to the store and not remember what I was supposed to get and forget to take my cortisol for example… its oppressive.

      – Eric

"...nothing ever goes away
until it has taught us
what we need to know.
"
-Pema Chodron

"God, whose law it is that all who learn must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget, falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God."
-Aeschylus

About


My name is Eric - I‘m 48 and saw a doctor for fatigue at 17. I lived fairly normally if a little subdued by lack of endurance at times. But then, 12 years ago I fell into a nosedive after moving to South Florida. Now, I know heavy metal toxicity is a significant source of my troubles along with genetic methylation cycle dysfunction and Lyme disease. I spent 18 months chelating the metals out and starting up methylation but stopped when I felt myself circling the drain. Currently going after Lyme and co-infections. More about me here.

* supplements
* hair test
* genetics
* lessons learned

"Battles are won in their darkest hours. Wars are won by learning something from each battle."
-Eric

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