Methylation: what are reasonable expectations for active B12 protocol?

Eric chronic fatigue, methylation, supplements

[I]’m chelating for heavy metals but I am really smitten with methylation and want to share some stunning assertions Freddd makes on Phoenix rising – I’ve bolded what I found most eye-catching for me:

WHAT ARE REASONABLE EXPECTATIONS? – The good, the bad and the ugly

ALL of these can happen if the necessary cofactors are also present. Until they are, symptoms may remain relatively unchanged. Changes will often be detected as starting within the first few doses of a newly added cofactor if that is a key cofactor. However, they may not start until the last necessary cofactor is present. That does not mean the previously started ones are not necessary. For some specific thing to heal may take 1000 steps. On 999 of those steps it is still not healed. Only after the final step will a specific thing be healed. There are many dependencies. Some symptoms may require changes in neurological functioning, biochemical functioning, mitochondrial functioning, epithelial healing, endothelial healing and neurological healing, both peripheral and central. This can start in minutes and finish in years. Active b12s are immediately active. There is no significant time required for it to work its way through a series of biochemical keyholes. There is no way to assure that any specific improvement may occur in any specific person. A return of sexual functionality for instance, may occur over months to years. There is no big signal saying “I’m back”. It may return as gradually as it went away. Without challenging the functionality one would never know it has returned. Most, but not all, of the symptoms on the list can correct partly to fully with both active b12s and cofactors.

  • Active b12s will do everything that inactive cobalamins are proven to do for Pernicious Anemia and anything else.
  • Active b12s put approximately 100 to 10,000 times as much active b12, 99+% unbound, into the serum as do inactive cobalamins. This causes a much faster diffusion into the tissues needing them and much faster response. As these are unbound b12s they are excreted more quickly and must be renewed daily for continued high level benefit. At least as much b12 will be bound depending upon biological limits. Three days without methylb12 and many people will begin to have return of symptoms. Three weeks without adenosylb12 and many people will start seeing some return of those symptoms.
  • Active b12s produce much quicker results, often starting within 10 minutes for some kinds of symptoms.
  • With active b12s mitochondria can start putting out more energy in 10 minutes.
  • With active b12s neurological functioning can start changing in under 1 hour.
  • With active b12s, hallucinations, if caused by deficiency, can diminish or disappear within hours.
  • With active b12 moods can be affected, often starting within one hour.
  • Muscle pains can start diminishing within days.
  • Burning muscle pain can be gone in 10 days.
  • Muscle spasms and knots can start diminishing within weeks.
  • Muscles can become normal starting within weeks.
  • Muscles can gain exercise tolerance, at the diminished level at which they are starting out within weeks and can grow and heal in response to exercise normally thereafter. Reasonable exercise is a must to stimulate healing of muscles and restoration of exercise capacity. One half to one percent a day increase appears to be a rate most can tolerate. One percent a day for a year is 37x increase. ½ percent a day for a year is 6x increase. This can apply to weight lifted or feet walked or minutes on the Nordic Track.
  • Sores at corners of mouth can be gone within weeks.
  • Irregular heartbeats, palpitations, tachycardia, may become pivot point symptom helping you home in on missing factors. For me it was B-Right twice a day AND 50mg of zinc daily after most other things were in place.
  • Dermatitis and other skin problems can start normalizing over weeks to months.
  • Red burning tongue can be normal within weeks.
  • Burning mouth can be normal within weeks.
  • Teeth hypersensitive to hot and cold can tend towards normal in months.
  • Multiple chemical sensitivity can diminish over weeks to years.
  • Allergies and asthma can diminish over months to years.
  • Hair can return to neuropathic slick legs over months, usually finer and not as much, but some return.
  • Chronic and acute headaches can diminish and disappear over months to years
  • Sleep disorders can diminish and disappear of weeks to months, dependent upon all necessary cofactors
  • Sexual dysfunctions of a number of causes may correct over a period of time.
  • Abnormal cells on PAP smear may return to normal in future on new tests.
  • Coarsened skin texture and dark coarse hair in some neuropathic skin areas can return to normal over months to years
  • Inability to focus eyes can disappear in days.
  • Vertigo can disappear within days to years
  • Ability to balance on one foot may return in months to years.
  • Burning bladder can be gone within weeks
  • Brainfog can start diminishing within hours dependent upon many factors being present. This often progresses in steps as additional cofactors are added.
  • Neurological pain can start diminishing, fading over months to years.
  • IBS can start changing in weeks if irritating foods are stopped, often dairy or gluten, subject to individual identification.
  • Neurological degeneration – subacute combined degeneration may require larger injectable doses to stop it once it has started. Even more frequent larger doses may be needed to reverse it.
  • Autoimmune problems do not appear to reverse. They appear to remain generally unchanged once started.
  • Neuropsychiatric changes can heal over months to years with sufficient doses, may occur in several dose and/or cofactor dependent stages. This does not mean that “the old you” from “before” is going to come back. If you have gone through personality and mood changes on the way down you will change again on the way back. Flattened affect may become a new “normal” though not the same as “before”. Personality will be more “normal” but not the same as “before”. The brain relearns as it rebuilds. Mood can become very volatile during these changes. Anger and sadness often become prominent at first as a person begins to see how badly damaged they have been and how their life has been damaged and is in shambles. Coming to grips with this seems to be part of the healing process. It wasn’t easy for me or anybody I know who has gone through it. Those around us have seen it all along. We get to see it as we come out of it. It may have taken 20-30 years of deterioration and been relatively invisible. Coming out is much more rapid and hence quite visible.
  • Memory and cognitive changes can be reversed in days to years. This does not mean that memory of the impaired period is regained. I have 20 years lost in the fog. Just call me Rip Van Winkle. It means that when you make a lunch date for next week you can remember to show up.
  • Most symptoms attributable to CFS/FMS/ME/CFIDS can be gone within a year of all necessary factors being present.
  • Severe neurological symptoms take longer.
  • Comorbidity is uncovered. A person may have any number of other unrelated conditions that has overlapping symptoms and so is invisible until these have been removed. When 150 symptoms go away and 25 remain what the 25 relate to may become much more obvious. I know one person who uncovered cerebellular paraneoplastic syndrome just as an example.
  • People have been able to come out of wheelchairs in weeks to months where the cause has been subacute combined degeneration which is often not diagnosed or mis diagnosed.
  • Some processes that had been on “hold” may start up. For example my male pattern baldness stopped progressing for 20 years and has started up again. Conceivably it could be some other disease processes as well.
  • Dropfoot and toe dragging can disappear in days to months.
  • Numbness of feet and legs can diminish in days to months. Normal feeling may never return but functionality with enough feeling and motor control for normal functioning and reduced falls can return in months including motor control and location sense of individual toes. Regenerating nerves can be painful.

Yesterday, I took a day off with no methylation supplements.  Today, after reading Freddd’s protocol for people with big reactions, I started again with 400 mcg  folate, 250 mcg B12 (MeCbl),  and 3 mg of AdoCbl.  Minutes after the AdoCbl was dissolved under my tongue I was feeling a surge in energy bordering on giddiness but also bordering on distracting lightheadedness.  I wouldn’t say it was unpleasant but I did have trouble concentrating.  Eight hours later, it has mostly faded and I’m feeling relieved and optimistic.

Will probably do something similar tomorrow with smaller quantities – possibly divide everything in half and take in the morning and afternoon.

20 thoughts to “Methylation: what are reasonable expectations for active B12 protocol?”

  1. Hello:

    Would someone please direct me? I thought I had subbed here and tried to log in and was rejected with my email addy.
    I even joined Phoenix Rising last year and then could not figure out how to post in the right place, so I’m a dummy.

    Just a few words from the right person, to get me IN HERE?

    My question was, having High Histamine for a year now, found out it is likely a gut-problem, took me that long. Perhaps even a Methylation problem.

    I’ve been taking MethylFolate for 5 years and didn’t know I also SHOULD HAVE been taking Methyl B12 along with it, even though there is a TINY BIT, in the B Complex I take, made here in Canada by AOR which contains all ACTIVE B’s.

    When I added the MethylB12, sublingually, I had MethylTrapping and that was a nightmare. So I had to stop the folate for a few weeks, add in the B12 and then back on to the Folate as well. That worked okay.

    Now the biggest question is – I am up to 5,000 mcg. sublingual MethylB12 and I’m HYPED. It took about 2 weeks to get there and I’m wondering if that is way too much and how would I know what level to stay at?

    Geeze I hate being HYPER.

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks,
    Bonnie

    1. Bonnie, that happened to me also when I ramped up to 5 mg over three weeks. That’s way too fast. Start over and do it over two months or more. Worked like a charm for me…

  2. Hi Eric
    How you doing, hope you’re well. I’m glad I found this link back to tell you about my latest health discovery. Gelatine. Basically I hurt my back in the Summer and had to try to heal it as fast as I could. I decided that gelatine, as an essential constituent of a nutritional diet, was not very well expressed in my case, so started to consume it from powdered sachets, like you buy in the cake making section of supermarkets. Well, all I want to really say is, if you think your health needs to be put back on track, then look no further than gelatine. Its effects are quite remarkable. First of all I noticed I had a lot more stamina and focus. Then I noticed my night vision improved immensely. Then I noticed the fat accumulation around my tummy region was disappearing, so much so that I have had to have clothes altered! Then I noticed my skin was looking far better than of late and in fact the gelatine was making my skin look positively younger?? I take 2 teaspoons in a hot drink at bed time. Usually with beef extract, but you can use vegetable bouillon if you prefer. It also aids restful sleep. The next day, at around 7pm, I get quite thirsty and drink about 2 or 3 glasses of water. But apart from that, the incorporation of gelatine into my regimen has been extremely advantageous. I have lost a half a stone in weight in one month, without forsaking a single food item. My friends and family are truly astonished at the transformation in me. I put it like that because its more than just a ‘small change’ or ‘subtle improvement’. The feeling it gives you to restore your tissues, especially your gut mucosa etc, is very different to all the other supplements and things I was taking. You find you are positively transformed from a person with average stamina and strength to someone with reserves of power that you only dreamed you would ever feel.

    The biological pathway that gelatine opens up is basically the pituitary-hypothalamus-adrenal axis. In other words, when your body finally gets enough of this vital nutrient, it quite literally suddenly sets to work to put you right e.g. it restores tissues, strengthens bones, tightens skin etc. The way it does this is quite extraordinary, it basically kick-starts your body into producing dollops of Human Growth Hormone (HGH) aka rocket fuel for your metabolism and general state of health.

    Can I also add that HGH seems to have a very unusual effect on your overall appearance? It seems to make you glow and look incredibly well? I can only associate the effect with a general sort of rejuvenation??? I tell you, I’m a person that would rather spend money on my garden than my hair, for instance, and yet my hair looks like I spent 3 hours in the salon and put every potion they have on it. Hair, nails, skin, figure, strength, stamina and bowel movements all improve no end with gelatine.

    P.S. I’m also taking vitamin C in pure form from fresh fruit, daily plus calcium and its co-factors, just in case anyone else wants to try it.

    1. that sounds like good stuff, might have to try that! thanks Angela and congratulations on your recovery:)

  3. What are the cofactors necessary for proper methylation or to prevent methylation? or are you referring to B12 as the cofactor?

  4. Hi Eric
    Had to write you. Remember we were talking about B12. Well, it turns out that completely by accident I found out that I had Candida intestinal overgrowth. Now the funny thing is that it also robs a person of B5 and B12. As I didn’t have sugar cravings or any bladder infections, I didn’t think it was affecting me. Well, I was totally wrong. They are blaming the worldwide epidemic proportions of this commensal yeast transforming into an enteric fungal pathogen on things like anti-bacterial handwash, chlorinated water, antibiotics, stressful lifestyles, diets rich in sugar, alcohol etc. So many of my symptoms have been resolved since I cleared Candida out, that I immediately thought of a few people, and you were one of them. I’ve done a blog post on what happened to me, if you have the time.
    All the best and you’ve nothing to lose from eliminating Candida as a possible cause of general fatigue-like symptoms.
    Angela

  5. Thanks Eric.  I have been looking into whether mercury toxicity might be a factor.  I am certainly very sensitive to fumes, odors and chemicals, typically get a metallic taste in my mouth before the nosebleed or headache.  I am married to a home builder and my dad was a builder.  I have had many exposures to new building products and vocs over the years as well as general environment.
     
    I don’t have metal fillings in my mouth. I did however use contact lens solutions containing thimerosal almost daily, probably at least 20 years, till thimerosal – free solutions came on the market.   Who knew.  I have had eye problems as well–uveitis which is an inflammatory disease and just appeared one day, but it seems to have cleared.
     
    I just looked up Thimerosal. Come to find out it is ETHYL-MERCURI-THIO (sulfur) SALICYLATE.  Well isn’t that coincidental. Or not.
    Some years ago my teenager had a bunch of immunizations at one dr visit.  She calmly had her shots, then a couple minutes later turned ghostly pale and shaky and nearly fainted.  It looked for all the world a typical (in our family) blood sugar crash (low brain glucose / hypoglycemia causes the adrenergenic symptoms–can be caused by salicylates I know now).  She was given Sprite (sugar) and recovered her color and could walk after a few minutes.  I doubt it was anxiety like the nurse implied.   Salicylate-sensitivity varies by individual.  I don’t know what preservatives were in the vaccines of course.

    1. I can identify with the homebuilding problem… A lot of my problems coincided with wood flooring we put down with glue in my first house. Then we moved to a new house which also had wood floor that was glued down. The eyedrops is a known mercury source – that’s probably all it would take.

  6. Hi,
    I too recently changed to proper B12, sublingual nugget by Solgar.  Could not believe the changes I noticed.  I thought i was imagining things at first.  On the topic of fatigue and Iodine.  Been there too.  I discovered I was chronically low sodium too.  Wondered if you’ve looked into switching to Celtic Sea salt – I highly recommend it.  I’m discovering that the things that are central to homeostasis e.g.  electrolyte balance were all scewwhiff with me.  I’m actively promoting the calcium-cycle (K2, D3 and magnesium) but the main reason I’m leaving this comment is that potassium has had a hugely beneficial effect on me.  Been hypothyroid, been adrenally fatigued, been bone-stripping resorption etc etc, but potassium seems to be the very last thing that I was deficient in.  Apparently it has a huge effect on thyroid.  All the best, man! 

    1. interesting Angela, how much potassium do you take? have you had a blood test to see what your serum levels are?

      I do also use sea salt:)

      1. Hi Eric
        Apologies for taking such a long time to reply.   

        My potassium was high-ish last year, then it dropped this year, as per blood tests.  But before I could get more blood work done, I noticed my feet were getting really hot and red every evening, and sometimes during the day. It really bothered me because it made me feel tired as my shoes were so tight.

        This was accompanied by two sites of throbbing joint pain.  I knew by taking potassium I would shed excess fluid.  So this time I took it with oral magnesium, because I’d read that sea salt, magnesium and potassium will alkalise your blood.  Sure enough the feet returned to normal.  But the added benefit was that the joint pain stopped.  Since then I’ve concluded that mild joint pain is a signal to me that my blood is becoming too acidic.  This was especially the case when I was drinking shop-bought cartons of fruit juice.  Been reading that for complete liver health, we have to supply the body with the entire Vitamin C complex (see: The Calcium Lie by Thompson).  I thought expensive fruit juice would do that?  How wrong could I have been!  The pasteurisation of all commercially produced fruit juice means the complete vitamin C complex is destroyed, all we’re left with is ascorbic acid.  I’m now juicing my own fruit.  Felt a million times better since doing that.  

        I’m now taking high doses of D3, which is incredible at waking up your metabolism.  Check out the fascinating book by that doctor who did experiments on himself using mega doses of D3 called ‘Miraculous Results with D3’ by Jeff Bowles.  You have to take K2 if you want to follow that regimen though.  His hypothesis is that low light levels on the skin e.g. lack of enough sunshine, means that our bodies never fully wake up from hibernation.  This hibernating state of metabolic limbo means weight gain and incomplete healing at sites of injury, especially bone, are commonplace.  He points out that D3 is a hormone more than a vitamin…   

        I was really pleased to read on Dr Russell Blaylock’s website that D3 also increases levels of Glutathione, which is what I’m looking at now, and that Magnesium also boosts glutathione.  

        Have you looked into Choline deficiency, btw?  Its rife.  Well, after cleansing my liver and incorporating EFAs according to what I read in ‘Brain-Building Nutrition: How Dietary Fats and Oils Affect Mental, Physical and Emotional Intelligence’ by Schimdt, I also started taking Choiine to help my liver and brain function.  I’m not sure if you’re aware of this, but if the body doesn’t receive adequate supplies of choline, the brain will cannibalise areas of itself in order to meet its need.  This is a sobering fact, wouldn’t you agree?  For more info, go to amazon.com and see the comments submitted by the first reviewer – very informative summary.  

        So I started addressing choline as I knew I was in the ‘at risk category’ (age and gender)  It took about 4-5 days to really kick in.  First couple of days felt a little weird, because of how it was interacting with my liver.  Some people report gas, I didn’t have that but I felt a little weird all the same.

        Then around day 5, I noticed I could handle a lot more complexity far later in the day than was normal for me, so now I take it twice a day.  I’ve noticed other benefits too.  

        I also recently gave up fluoride toothpaste, cow’s milk, pore-clogging/aluminium deodorant and commercially made fruit juice.
        I’ve done so much good stuff for my health in the last 7 months, I honestly think I must have turned back the biological clock somewhat?  Not that that was my primary aim, but its a very nice bonus.  

        1. hi Angela, good to hear you are making a good comeback. i have trouble taking more than a moderate amount of vitamin D and the same with choline. however, I did just start eating eggs again in order to increase my choline – so far so good! still wonder if I could take more potassium but I worry about injuring my stomach lining.

          my feet also get hot and red in the evening and I don’t know what that means…

          1. A tip for getting potassium and magnesium into your system:   Dead sea salts in the bath.  The major minerals are magnesium chloride and potassium chloride.  Not claiming this source is pure and toxin-free but it may get you by in a pinch.
            I figured this out after I gave myself a bad reaction by eating raw swiss chard (high salicylate/phenols/oxalate?).  The bath may itch or sting if you do it very concentrated.  I use it if I am reacting to a food and my urine test pH shows very acid.  
            I had started investigating the Failsafe diet because I recognized the hypoglycemic episodes, mood, combativeness, chemical sensitivity, etc, in our family, as described in Sue Dengate’s book.  I did the aforementioned food challenge and boy was I unprepared for the results.  I have never noticed any food allergies in my life, but in about 10 minutes my face became warm, my eyes started itching, my scalp and neck itched. My heart rate was elevated. My blood pressure cuff wouldn’t read properly several times, but bp was low. Next morning my skin was horribly dry, pinching the skin on my hand showed me to be rather dehydrated, and I felt like I was excreting pure acid. I suddenly had a bleeding hemorrhoid and a cracked lip and very dry eyes. My throat was burning.  I took myself off to the nurse practitioner, who ran some bloodwork (all within normal limits including B12, D3 was low).  By 24 hours after the chard, now my bp was elevated, my cheeks were red and my skin felt like I had been installing fiberglass insulation.  She referred me to an allergist. Doubt that will lead anywhere.
            Basically I read up on how people in the ER deal with salicylate poisoning:  elevating the urine pH helps to excrete it.  BUT usually potassium is low and their system is dumping uric acid faster than it can be eliminated, so the urine is acid.  I took a bath with the sea salt and it helped rehydrate me, the hemorrhoid went away and it helped move the urine pH in the right direction.  I tried to avoid salicylates and lower the sulfur foods and take minerals too. It took nearly 2 weeks and finally  I added digestive enzymes (Enzymedica Digest Spectrum formulated for autistic people) my urine pH moved into the proper range and wasn’t always stuck at 5.0 pH.  The enzymes seem to make a difference, as well as minerals and fat soluble vitamins A, D3, K2 and ubiquinol.  I’m scared to take much else.
            I have reacted badly to sulfur supplements including SAM-e and MSM so wondered if sulfur was a factor.  I am convinced it is.  I had been using fermented cod liver oil, plus Epsom salt baths about weekly, and had the night before I ate the chard, too.  The PST enzyme (detoxifies phenols) needs sulfate so I am cautiously using Epsom salt and fish oil in small quantities, but not sure if I should.
            I was getting freaked about the urine pH being so low for so long, although I had never thought to track it before.  My father at age 17 nearly died of kidney damage, with an unknown cause.  The story goes that he swelled up with fluid, in desperation they took him to a chiropractor.  The dr adjusted him, then he was able to start excreting all the fluid that was on him. Later in life he had gout and his kidneys functioned suboptimally until they ultimately failed in his sixties.   Given the unknown origin of his kidney damage, I am trying to be careful.  It could have even been from aspirin.
            Learning a lot from your blog and commenters. But feels like I need a biochemistry degree to make dinner.

            1. Hi Raina, glad this info is helping. Note that sulfur intolerance sometimes comes from mercury toxicity…

    2. Hi Angela,
       
      I’ve read Jeff’s ebook also and tried his approach, but I found that Dr Stasha Gominak’s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH850CDQ00Q) ideas on Vitamin D supplementation held up better.  According to her there is a narrow range in which vitamin D is best for sleep and healing (60-80ng/ml), and the effect of going above this range are the same as being below it.  After six months or so of experimentation this has certainly been the case for me, regardless of K2 etc.

      1. Hi Sunworship
        You are totally correct.  I have completely overdosed on D3 and paid the price.  I purposefully set out to do it because I wanted to de-calcify my body as much as I possibly could, especially where I had suffered a lot of inflammation in the blood vessels of my scalp due to adrenally fatigued migraines, for about 2 years.  I learned that long term inflammation can lead to calcification.  So I built up to 10,000 i.U. of D3 a day.  I felt incredible, so alive, better than I had felt in years.   Then, after about 5 months, the scales tipped and without really noticing, I started to have weird symptoms, like needing to pass a lot of water, insomnia, then finally my tooth socket that was supposed to be healing actually re-opened!  Then my hip gave me a lot of pain (has to be site of major resorption).  But you know, I still didn’t connect the dots, until a (dreaded) kidney stone went mobile.  Found out kidney stones happen due either to too much calcium or too little.  Busted the stone myself with max doses of Epsom Salts, takes about 3 hours.  Since then, been taking max dose of calcium carbonate (melted in pure lemon juice for easier absorption), plus liquid organic calcium.  Correction of calcium status was slow until I found out about the triumvirate of wound-healing (I have to ready in time for my tooth implant) being calcium plus 3 vitally important amino acids: Glutamine, Arginine, Lysine.  Well, what can I say, jaw bone healed in less than a week!  Hip pain stopped (TG) and what’s more, nocturnal micturition is no more!  

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