Ready for dose increase

14My 14th round was very long, a record for me at 12 days. Based on the prior round I expected to feel better than I did. After the first day of side effects, I settled into a state of mild apathy and slowness or confusion. Also did not experience any of the euphoria that I have glimpsed from time to time in previous rounds.

Still able to work but not very productively in the afternoons. For the last three days of the round, I slept very lightly and with difficulty. On the last day of the round I took my last ALA at 2 PM and by evening I was feeling more relaxed than I had for days, so I attribute the light sleep to an accumulation of ALA. It is a support factor for methylation, so that’s one possible explanation.

Overall, I feel like I’m getting more results from my methylation support (and exercise) that I am from chelation but it’s early in the game and I’ve always seen methylation as a quicker hit and chelation a very long-term project. My improving toleration of chelation gives me confidence that I’m going in the right direction.

My body temperature reached normal levels during this round. I’ll keep taking the iodine, however. I did more reading about iodine and still feel comfortable with my 50 mg dosing. My wife seems very stable on her 25 mg also.

On the methylation front, I introduced TMG and had an immediate reaction — 500 mg was a little too uncomfortable but split between breakfast and lunch is tolerable. I’m expecting it to take about a week to 10 days for this reaction to fade. It’s hard to describe the reaction but it’s something like having a mild headache with confusion, and feeling wired and tired at the same time.

As for the B6, I think I’ve broken through cleanly and no longer have side effects from it.

Next round, I’m going to try to increase the frequency again because I always start feeling fatigue in the last half-hour of each dose interval. Because it didn’t go well last time I tried this, I’m going to try to reach a compromise with a little bit longer interval, less DMSA and a little more ALA. looking back at my notes, I might’ve had too much going on the last time I tried as I started using Iodoral iodine the same day that I got maytagged.

My round notes are below:

Round 14 (12 days) – 50 mg DMSA, 50 mg ALA every 3 hours, total chelation days to date: 49

  • Sunday, July 14: started at 8 PM, frontal headache and a little emotional by 10 PM
  • Monday, July 15: not very productive day work wise, not feeling the confusion but some apathy, probably from not sleeping well. A little bit of head pressure. temperature down a bit. less hunger than normal, not snacking much.
  • Tuesday, July 16: sprints at 9 AM, about an hour earlier than normal and was very tight, difficult to complete because of pain in feet. Slow thinking. Less hunger than normal, snacking very little. Barefoot walk before dinner. A little difficulty falling asleep, but then slept well.
  • Wednesday, July 17: started taking CoQ10 with 10 mg at breakfast and lunch. A little fatigued this morning and still tight during sprints. Almost didn’t feel like napping after lunch (unusual, CoQ10?) but did anyway and dozed lightly.
  • Thursday, July 18: added 10 mg CoQ10, mild confusion and apathy
  • Friday, July 19: mild confusion and apathy
  • Saturday, July 20: increased B12 by 250 µg to 1 mg, used 10 g D-Ribose horseback riding (twice as much as normal) to good effect, mild confusion and apathy
  • Sunday, July 21: increased vitamin C from 4 g to 5 g, increased fish oil by 77 mg to 569 mg omega-3, fatigued from Saturday, mild confusion and apathy, headache from 8 PM until bedtime (vit D?), a little trouble falling asleep but slept well.
  • Monday, July 22:increased B12 by 250 µg to 1.25 mg,  mild confusion and apathy
  • Tuesday, July 23 – Friday, July 26: mild confusion and apathy, pretty minimal side effects with the exception that I slept very lightly and had trouble falling asleep several nights. Considered that it might have been due to a stressful week at work, or from the aspartate in my lithium which I was taking near bedtime, or from the increase in vitamin C. However, on Friday I took my last ALA at 2 PM and after dinner I was feeling much more relaxed than I had for a week. So maybe the ALA was involved also. Don’t really have a way to know because I also rearranged my supplement schedule with the lithium in the morning and no vitamin C after 4 PM… Anyhow, I’m sure I’m ready for a chelator dose increase or frequency increase.
  • Saturday, July 27 (off-round): slept deeply at midday nap – first time in many many days which leads me to believe that the trouble I had sleeping last week was mostly related to doing an extended round (chelators) and not related to support supplements. Added 500 mg TMG. Slight headache a few hours later…
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  • avatar

    Expat Viking August 20, 2013, 12:39 am

    I did some more reading regarding what Freddd is saying about “watery fat” and I found this:
    “These symptoms are what responded very well to L-carnitine fumarate AND AdoCbl for the first two items
    L-carnitine fumarate – Metafolin – AdoCbl – MeCbl: weight gain, watery fat, edema”
    from http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/the-stages-of-methylation-and-healing.21725/page-17#post-338676

    This does seem to indicate that, according to Fredd, LCF combined with Metafolin, AdoCbl and MeCbl may help fix the problem with watery fat.

    Since I still find it very difficult to really make sense of what he is saying, I just wondered if you agree with my take here.

    Another interesting thing is stated in the post above, where Fredd claims that high dose MeCbl, AdoCbl and Metafolin can improve night vision. I used to have very poor night vision on one eye but it is now gone. I just assumed that this was related to chelation but maybe metylation was a factor here. Who knows…..

    I am now on day 9 of my round and still no sfx. But I will stop  after today for a one week break. Then I plan to do 5 more days and then a long break (maybe 3 months) to focus on weight loss.

    • avatar

      Eric August 20, 2013, 11:43 pm

      Thanks Viking, I had bookmarked that thread meaning to come back later and I never did…

      I just worked my way through it, somewhat reluctantly because it is hard on the eyes and brain. I think your understanding is probably right concerning the watery fat and weight loss. Certainly worth a try. You probably also noticed his talk about micro-titration of carnitine using a liquid version… I also have had deteriorating night vision. Will watch for an improvement.

      Reading the thread was very helpful for me because I didn’t know about the 1:1 db12 to mb12 ratio – that’s new. I also have a new appreciation for the quantities of folate I should be targeting. At 400 mcg I’m very low on that.

      After increasing my adb12, which I started this afternoon, I will probably add a little bit of SAMe and then start working on folate. Very exciting to think about the possible improvements!

      Fantastic to hear about your long round with no side effects. Although I’m sure I’m on the right track, i still can’t really believe i’m going to be able to exercise freely and not micromanage my energy levels and cognition every hour of the day…

      • avatar

        Expat Viking August 21, 2013, 12:24 am

        “I just worked my way through it, somewhat reluctantly because it is hard on the eyes and brain”
        Thank you for making the effort! I am very impressed with your willingness to read all of this info. I find some of the Freddd material very painful and confusing and tend to skim over things that I think are not directly relevant to what I am looking for. Your way is clearly better, so I am very glad to be able to ask some questions. 
        I will give high dose LCF a try and then we will see what happens…
        ” 1:1 db12 to mb12 ratio – that’s new. ”
        yes, I was news to me also and part of the reason that I am now doing 1:1 on a daily basis.
        “Although I’m sure I’m on the right track, i still can’t really believe i’m going to be able to exercise freely and not micromanage my energy levels and cognition every hour of the day…”
        Well, everybody is different but my guess is that it will work for you. We both seem to have started out with several issues but still beeing able to function. You have to remember that this is much better than what is the case for many of the frequent writers over at FDC. As an example, my understanding is that Linda was sitting in a wheelchair when she started out. Also, you seem to respond well to many supps and if you get past the fish oil issue, which seems close, I think that you are tolerating all basic supps recommended by Cutler. This, plus that you seem ready for higher doses of chelators soon, should mean that the odds are in your favour for a speedy recovery.
        Finally, your clear success with iodine and methylation are similar to my experiences, so this may indicate that we are on similar timelines.  

        • avatar

          Eric August 21, 2013, 1:08 am

          thanks again Viking, I’ve been having a hard time with tight muscles and tendinitis from my sprinting which has got me down a little. I know you’re right and I’m looking forward to my rebirth…

          “I am very impressed with your willingness to read all of this info.”

          Actually, I think I do it the way you do it – mostly skimming and only reading when the information looks practical, lol. But even that still takes a lot of time. And I hate reading the personal attacks on Freddd.

    • avatar

      Tara August 22, 2013, 6:48 pm

      Sounds like you’re onto something with the watery fat, Viking.  That is very curious, indeed, and I’ll be eager to hear how things turn out if you end up testing it out.  I guess the greatest hesitation for me, personally, would be if I have reactions to the supplements.  I have a mighty collection of bottles that affected me about the same as bathing myself in perfume   🙂  

      Oh, and I just read your calculation that you’ve chelated about the equivalent of 100 Rounds at 25 mg?!  Wow!  You’ve made a dramatic recovery then, indeed!  I am hoping to be in decent shape at about 125 Rounds, most of which I’d be chelating around 100 mgs.  Impossible to say, at this point, but a girl can hope…

    • avatar

      Tara August 25, 2013, 1:51 am

      What is AdoCbl (adocobalamin)?  Is it a supplement?  And is he saying just to take the first two (L-Carnitine fumarate and metafolin) for the watery fat, or all four?  And in what ratio?

      I give you two all the credit in the world for sifting through those threads.  I can never make any sense of them.
      I’m taking 800 mcg Metafolin (Solgar folate) and 8000 mcg methyl-B12, so fixing the ratios, addressing the AdoCbl?, and adding the LCF would be next in line if I end up giving it a go. 

      I’ve got at least another year of chelation to go, so if there’d be something to symptom manage our newly defined ‘watery fat,’ I might end up giving it a try.  I guess I’m just not getting my hopes up, because even if it were the answer, I’m doubting I wouldn’t react to something in the supplement. 

      Anyway, still eager to follow Viking’s progress and see how the LCF goes for him. 

      • avatar

        Eric August 25, 2013, 2:57 pm

        What is AdoCbl (adocobalamin)? Is it a supplement? –> yep, http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Dibencozide-Coenzymated-B-12-60-Tablets/2454

        One of the active forms of vitamin B12, also known as cobamamide, adenosylcobalamin or adb12, it generally has much milder and fewer startup reactions. Said to populate the neural mitochondria, energizing the central nervous system in a very pleasant way, improving mood and clarity of thought. Forms part of the Krebs cycle for production of energy. Best taken once a day early in the morning to avoid interference with sleep.

  • avatar

    Tara August 11, 2013, 9:23 pm

    “That’s exactly what I had decided to do a few minutes ago before reading this:)”
    LOL!  Eric, you crack me up!   🙂    I think of you as the ever enthusiastic Supplement Tester    🙂   

    • avatar

      Eric August 11, 2013, 10:18 pm

      He he, more like the supplement vacuum. The ironic thing is, I swore off supplements for about five years after I ruined my stomach with them (without getting any lasting benefits)…

  • avatar

    Expat Viking August 11, 2013, 12:47 am

    Regarding the difference between Acetyl-L-Carnitine and L-Carnitine Fumarate, I found this:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/l-carnitine-fumarate.22087/
    It does explain some things, but as always when I read something involving Freddd, I also feel a bit confused…..
    I did find this very interesting:
    “The muscle atrophy and inability to build the muscle, and only making watery fat possible while loosing healthy body tissue, giving contradictory weight loss/weight gain all look to tied up with carnitine and larger dose metafolin.”   (Comment by Freddd on page 2)
    Maybe this could be the answer to the bloat that Tara and I are having problems with. “watery fat” is very much what it feels like…
     

    • avatar

      Eric August 11, 2013, 3:00 am

      Very interesting thread you found, although I don’t know what Freddd is saying in that quote at all. I did like reading the fact that he suggests taking carnitine three times a day. That’s exactly what I had decided to do a few minutes ago before reading this:)

      Based on that thread I’m also assuming I can stick with LCF because he says most people benefit from one variety or the other but not both, and I definitely had the same reaction with it that I’ve had with many of the other methylation supports.

      • avatar

        Expat Viking August 11, 2013, 1:31 pm

        ” although I don’t know what Freddd is saying in that quote at all. ”
        Yes, I also find it very unclear. But just that he mentions “watery fat” makes me very interested. I have tried to read up on it but can’t really find anything more. The fact that I got a strong reaction from the Fumarate indicates that something meaningful is happening.
        After having taken 4 of the 855 mg (or 500 mg, depending on how you see it) yesterday, I think that I will back down to 1 a day for a while now. I plan on doing one long or two medium rounds of ALA now, for a total of 10-12 days, and I don’t want to mess it up with massive insomnia ( I stayed awake until 6 am yesterday).  But then I am planning a long break from chelation with full focus on weight loss. High dose Fumarate may be the first thing that I try then. Maybe try to work up to 4-6 pills a day and then go for a strict diet for a few weeks. If that does not work, I think I will try Tara’s idea of stopping all supps. 

        • avatar

          Eric August 11, 2013, 10:14 pm

          Whoa, 6 AM that is serious insomnia. Were you taking a different form of carnitine before? The mystery quote from Freddd makes me wonder if you are still taking relatively large amounts of folate…

          Before you stop all supplements, you might try just stopping the fish oil if you haven’t tried that before. Or you might try switching to one that’s ultra-concentrated – I happen to be reading this today: http://www.omegavia.com/the-omegavia-difference/

          I’m a couple hours away of finishing a seven-day round and very glad to have a break. Was hoping that it would get easier and easier every day and then transition to feeling better on round than off, but that didn’t really happen. Maybe next time:)

          • avatar

            Tara August 11, 2013, 11:27 pm

            Fish oil might be a factor for Viking, but I haven’t ever taken it, which leads me to believe that there’s still something else going on.
            Your mention of feeling better off round vs. on, or vice versa, is an interesting one.  I’ve wondered what makes this so for each of us, how we’re all different.  For me it used to me much clearer that I felt better on round, and these days, if I had to pin it down, I’d say I feel better off (most recently I’m doing about 6 days on, 4 off). 
            Not sure if things shift for everyone, if it’s related to how much of a load we have left, or what…  Yet another mystery    🙂
             

            • avatar

              Eric August 12, 2013, 2:53 pm

              6/4 is an odd schedule Tara – I think it means you are not starting the same day of the week each time, right?

              There must be a lot of factors that determine whether you feel better on or off. Because I’ve had some good days on round, I have this feeling that there is some combination of DMSA/ALA and dosage that might make me feel better on round more often… What I know for certain is that it’s definitely not on an increase. I’m guessing it might be some intermediate stage after the increase but before my body adapts too much to the increase.

              Might be that it will always remain a moving target for me and I’m not going to get there on a regular basis.

          • avatar

            Tara August 12, 2013, 3:12 pm

            Yes, 6 on 4 off is probably an odd schedule to most people, but with not working and not needing to adhere to any certain schedule, I’ve never found the need to start or stop on certain days of the week.  I find that 6 days is easily attainable for me, before I start to feel symptoms telling me to stop, and then when I’m off round, usually 4 is all I need.  I’m ready to start back up again by Day 5. 

            When I was doing 3 day rounds, I took 3 off, but as I’ve lengthened my rounds, little by little, I find I don’t need an equal amount of recovery time.  Cutler said something in a recent post that said as much.  I’m going to continue to slowly increase my rounds as tolerated.  Even though I added in another 6.25 mgs this round, I still am peeking into Day 7 without much upset.  I just took my 1st dose into Day 7, though I think I may stop at this point, not knowing how hard redistribution will hit me. 

            Try not to get too discouraged or trying to hit the target with how to get yourself to feel better on round.  I think, like you said, there are many factors, but I also think you shouldn’t be surprised if after chelating for a bit more you shift into that place of it being easy going.  Hard to say, but one thing I’ve learned along the way is to try to resist having expectations.  Sometimes I’m pleasantly surprised, and sometimes I’m madly discouraged, that things should be better at x, y, or z point.

            I try to think of all the lessons this journey is teaching me, and there are many!  I think that all of us who make it through being sick, finding mercury and chelation, and putting in the work to recover, will have so much gratitude and joy in our futures, so much of a greater perspective on our lives and life in general, that I am grateful each and every day for the misery I go through (though sometimes bitterly complaining at the same time!). 

            • avatar

              Eric August 12, 2013, 3:23 pm

              I do think you’re right about the reduced need for recovery time with the longer rounds, I’ll probably be heading in that direction too. And certainly right about not having expectations! And especially totally right about the work involved in recovery. It feels like a full-time job at times.

              By the way, I decided to switch to benfotiamine and noticed you take 900 mg – wondering if you feel any noticeable effects with it. I’m wondering if it’s the B-1 that’s allowing me to take more fish oil… I was looking for a 50 mg B-1 because somewhere color recommends taking that with chelation doses but couldn’t find it at a reasonable price/brand. So then I started looking at benfotiamine and the smallest dose I could find was 80 mg which I ordered. how do you take yours? All at once or divided?

          • avatar

            Tara August 12, 2013, 3:48 pm

            Full time job, indeed.  There’s no way in hell I’d be able to hold down a job with my MCS as it is.  I still can’t believe I managed to hold it together 5 1/2 years as I did before starting chelation.  I was a mess from all the synthetic product in the spa, and then all the chemicals and cleaning products in the hospital where I worked.  I finally reached my breaking point, and I often wonder if I’d ever recover if I didn’t have my parents to help me out right now.  I can’t see being able to chelate and work in the state I was in, or even now.  It stresses me out just to get together with a friend, as sad as that sounds. 

            Healthy people have much to be thankful for, not just their ability to work, but the fact that they can put in their hours and then enjoy the evenings, weekends, and vacations.  I’m lucky if I get a few hour pocket during the week where I don’t have more than one symptom and I can enjoy a little time with my niece and nephew, or just relish the feeling of feeling good.  Recovery is not only a full time job, but a never ending job…  But you know that all too well as well!

            Regarding the B1, I can’t say that I’ve noticed much from it, but I believe I started taking it the same time I did the niacinamide.  I was taking both at 9 am, 1 pm, and 5 pm, but now I’m just taking both at 9 and 5.  I just realized when I updated my blog, instead of reducing my dose I increased it   🙂   Each capsule is 150 mg, so I’m now taking 300 mg.  Previously I was taking 450.  I reduced because I thought I could get away with less when I was trying to wean off some of my supps because of the water retention.  I honestly feel like I hold about a pound or 2 of water for every supplement I take, and shaving off a few of them has seemed to help with some of the bloat.

            Anyway, sorry I can’t say for sure I found the B1 enormously helpful, but I don’t think anyone should ever really use me as a guide for anything.  Everyone with MCS in the forum that I’ve read has mentioned they’ve experienced great improvement in their chemical sensitivities by adding in niacinamide, GSE, OoO, etc, some of them even almost eliminating MCS symptoms entirely by their addition. 

            I haven’t experienced anything even noticeable from them, and I was even taking the B3 at one point 6 or 7 times a day, at Cutler’s max. recommended dose.  I don’t know if it’s like a drop in the bucket of my liver problems or what, but I see little point in dealing with the water weight for supplements I see serving little to no benefit for me.

            I was going to ask you, do you have to worry at all with fish oil products if there’s any trace amounts of mercury in them?  Also, had you previously had a thinning of your outer eyebrow that you noticed filling back in when you started on the iodine?  That’s something I’m hoping iodine will reverse for me once I am able to get on it.  A superficial, painless, symptom, but something I remain curious about. 

            • avatar

              Eric August 12, 2013, 5:20 pm

              I’m glad I asked you then because I might have tried 900 mg, lol. I’m actually taking 500 mg now of the standard B-1. I wonder if the Benfotiame will be stronger since it’s an active version…

              I have worried about getting mercury with fish oil but am relying on the experience of people like Cutler and Viking. I did decide to throw away my old fish oil and start giving my wife the better quality stuff so I’m going to switch her to Nordic Naturals which I’ve been taking for a while. I’m wondering if my tolerance for fish oil might actually be much higher than I know since I’ve been extremely cautious with it for months.

            • avatar

              Eric August 12, 2013, 5:21 pm

              By the way, I want to talk to you about your massage work one of these days…

          • avatar

            Tara August 12, 2013, 6:05 pm

            Remind me again why Cutler advises fish oil?  Omega 3’s and 6’s?  I take one tablespoon flax oil a day, and every so often will do other whole seeds and nuts, including hemp seeds which have both the 3’s and the 6’s.  Omega 6’s I get from olive oil and almonds, though I’ve recently cut my almonds down from about 1/2 cup daily to less than 1/4.  Not sure that I’m getting anywhere near what I should, but I’m guessing it adds up to a fair amount combined.
            Regarding benfotiamine offering more bang for the buck with it being in the active form, I would guess so, but you’ll have to give it a go and feel it out for yourself.  Maybe Cutler even addresses that difference in AI.

            Feel free to ask away any questions in regard to massage   🙂   I know it just came up again in the forum, and I think it important for each individual to decide for themselves if it’s something they feel they benefit from or not, but my personal opinions on it are as follows:  Massage is largely indicated for most ailments and conditions, largely but not all.  It’s benefits are widespread.  Someone with fibromyalgia would be contraindicated against for deep tissue; only light work for relaxation and to stimulate some lymph flow would be advisable. 

            Personally, I have found massage while being sick to be very similar to exercise intolerance.  I feel it mobilizes and redistributes too much for me to feel it’s doing more good than harm.  I haven’t had a massage since chelating, and I’m not really jumping at the chance to do so, but I would suggest that those who would, would either have the work done while on round, so that the chelator can grab whatever’s mobilized, or to wait until they’re well past redistribution symptoms on off round days. 

            Anyway, that’s just the short version of my perspective, from both my professional background and my experience living in my own body and dealing with mercury.  I also think the tolerance of massage for someone chelating depends on how toxic they are at any given time. 
            There is so much benefit from massage, and my opinion, even moreso from yoga, but we each need to decide for ourselves if the place we are currently at warrant each modality beneficial or harmful.  And for me and my personal love of yoga, as amazingly beneficial of a therapy as it is, I’m still at a place where I’d feel it’d make more of a mess than help me.
             

            • avatar

              Eric August 12, 2013, 6:58 pm

              Cutler says Mercury destroys EFA’s in the brain is especially high in EFA’s so therefore especially affected.

              In AI Cutler only recommends fish oil for the first month or two of supplementation and then says that you will start making EPA and DHA from flax oil after a month or two, so you might be doing it just right… although based on the numbers shown here http://omegascience.org/product_ingredients/flaxseed_oil.aspx you would be getting less DHA than you typically would from fish oil.

        • avatar

          Tara August 11, 2013, 11:21 pm

          So you didn’t fall asleep until 6 am then?  That IS a long night, indeed.  How did you end up feeling today? 
          Another thought that I get with the weight/fluid being supplement related is just the pure fact that nothing else has really changed.  My diet is actually more restricted than it was prior to chelation (other than the recent attempts at coffee and zucchini), and actually, pre-chelation I was also eating millet, amaranth, and quinoa.  Physiologically speaking, I would think I would actually weigh less now than I did last August.  I’m getting zero carbs or anything substantial enough to keep me from burning fat.

          And in my mind, I’m hesitant to add another supplement to the mix to fix the problem, not just because I suspect it as the cause, but because I wasn’t taking it before or when the problem arose.  Chelation does throw things off kilter, so you very well could be right that the carnitine fumarate is a deficiency we’ve both developed (that’s affecting the weight/fluid), but I also still wonder how we could have had muscle wasting or increased fat build up within even a day or two of chelating.  I felt like my skin was filling up with water that quickly.
          I don’t know.  I can’t say anything for certain; your guess is as good as mine.  Just thinking out loud, and thinking we should write a book on the topic when all is said and done    🙂    There certainly seems to be a lack of resources out there to help us troubleshoot, and we certainly can’t be the only two that have experienced this with chelation.
           

  • avatar

    Expat Viking August 9, 2013, 10:56 pm

    When I started out with B12, the plan was to go much higher than 10 mg a day. I remember Fredd talking about hysterical doses for CNS healing (like stuffing as many 5 mg Jarrows as you could under both your lips…). But I got such a good respons from 10 mg that I never went higher. Having said that, it is also possible that it was the ALA that did most of the work (high dose ALA is a fairly mainstream treatment in Germany for  peripheral neuropathy and they tend to use around 1.5 grams per day so this was a big reason for me to get to my current ALA dose. i.e. 1.6 g per day on round). Who knows….. Or maybe it was all in the fish oil 🙂

    • avatar

      Eric August 10, 2013, 12:12 am

      LOL I did increase my fish oil by another 63 mg today. Another wrinkle is that ALA is a cofactor for methylation too. At the end of the day, we are walking vitamin bombs and there’s no telling what’s doing what or interacting with what.

      In case you want to try that other adb12, it’s from Anabol Naturals.

  • avatar

    Expat Viking August 6, 2013, 9:49 pm

    Sound like you are doing great, Eric!
    What about the fish oil? That seems to be the only main component missing for you now.
    Also, I read some of the new posts from Freddd that you linked to. As a result, I will try to do dibencozide every day (have done 1-2 a week before). and since I know that you read everything, I have a question for you:
    What is the difference between Acetyl-L-Carnitine (that I take now, as recommended by Cutler) and L-Carnitine Fumarate (as recommended by Freddd)?
    I am thinking about trying these:
    http://www.iherb.com/Doctor-s-Best-Best-L-Carnitine-Fumarate-855-mg-180-Veggie-Caps/4939

    • avatar

      Eric August 6, 2013, 11:05 pm

      Hi Viking! I think it’s all going well even if it often feels like a terrible effort and slow as dirt. I’m up to 570 mg fish oil which I’m certain I would not have tolerated before. I will keep titrating up but still have other things in line before that. Next I will increase my TMG.

      Would love to hear if you notice any effect from taking the ADB12 every day… I’ve been thinking about testing a larger dose of it but haven’t had the opportunity to fit it in yet.

      Sorry I can’t comment on the difference between the two carnitines. I take two of these a day which looked to be a little stronger than the one you linked to (also is a tablet):
      http://www.iherb.com/Doctor-s-Best-Best-Carnitine-Energy-667-mg-90-Tablets/45195

      At this point, every single methylation support supplement that I have tried has given me some startup reactions and then faded. Soon, I will need to increase the amounts of folate and mb12…

      • avatar

        Expat Viking August 9, 2013, 10:20 pm

        “Would love to hear if you notice any effect from taking the ADB12 every day”

        I have done it for 4 days now, i.e. 10 mg ADB12 along with 10 mg Methyl B12. I think that there is some positive effect, i.e. a bit more energy and maybe also some impact on body temp. But nothing major. On the other hand, I am feeling very good in general, so I might be at a point where I am not that affected by various B12 supps any longer. I still remember the first time I took ADB12 (it was the CL 3 mg and I only held it under my lip a few minutes); The effect was very powerful, racing heart and a very strong feeling of beeing warm.
        I think that I read somewhere that you are moving from the Jarrow Metyl B12 to some other brand. May I ask why?
        Also, I am starting the  L-Carnitine Fumarate today (1 gram but I will ramp up to maybe 3-4). I read some reports about people losing weight when they started using this, so I have some hopes…. I will let you know what happens.

        • avatar

          Eric August 9, 2013, 10:37 pm

          That is so inspirational to hear you are feeling really well – how I want to be there! My dose increase has succeeded fairly well, I think I chose just right… I’m uncomfortable, but it’s tolerable.

          I’m going to follow your lead and try taking a larger amount of adb12. I only take 1 mg a day. In general I think I’m taking low amounts of all the methylation supplements, so I have lots of room for increases. Today was my first day at 1 gm of TMG and it went pretty well. Little bit of anxiety in the morning but often I find that only happens the first time on an increase.

          I did read that Freddd now favors a new brand of adb12 and I ordered it only to discover it is a capsule. Haven’t taken any yet because I would need to open the capsule and mess around with partial amounts. Look forward to hearing how the carnitine works for you:)

          • avatar

            Expat Viking August 11, 2013, 12:13 am

            “Look forward to hearing how the carnitine works for you”
            Today I took 2 grams of the L-Carnitine Fumarate  and I did get a significant effect: strong insomnia. It is 2 am over here and I am wide awake. I have not had this (at least off round) for quite a while, so I am fairly certain that it is the  Fumarate. But it is not the really bad kind of insomia. Rather, I feel full of energy, like I should get going with some work.
            I will hold at 2 grams for a few days and see how it goes……

            • avatar

              Eric August 11, 2013, 2:52 am

              That’s fantastic Viking, guess you’re not immune yet! I’m excited to know you still had some gains left to grab. I like to make small tweaks every day so I decided to add 333 mg carnitine tomorrow morning 😀

              Hope you will catch up on your sleep tomorrow…

"...nothing ever goes away
until it has taught us
what we need to know.
"
-Pema Chodron

"God, whose law it is that all who learn must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget, falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God."
-Aeschylus

About


My name is Eric - I‘m 48 and saw a doctor for fatigue at 17. I lived fairly normally if a little subdued by lack of endurance at times. But then, 12 years ago I fell into a nosedive after moving to South Florida. Now, I know heavy metal toxicity is a significant source of my troubles along with genetic methylation cycle dysfunction and Lyme disease. I spent 18 months chelating the metals out and starting up methylation but stopped when I felt myself circling the drain. Currently going after Lyme and co-infections. More about me here.

* supplements
* hair test
* genetics
* lessons learned

"Battles are won in their darkest hours. Wars are won by learning something from each battle."
-Eric

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