Still copper toxic two years later?

native-copperI quit chelating around seven months ago to do liver and colon cleansing and just recently did my third annual hair test. When the results arrived, I was very upset to see my copper has gone back up. It went from 560 to 170 to 280 (whereas the reference range is 11 – 30). First I’ll show you the results compared with my previous two hair tests and then show you all the questions I’ve wanted to answer. I’m documenting all this research because my memory is so impaired, it’s likely one of the things that caused me to drop the ball on lowering my copper!

hair-test-comparisons

Why should I care about high copper?

  • copper antagonizes potassium – low potassium results in tight muscles and other problems.
  • copper imbalances are highly associated with most psychological, emotional and often neurological conditions.  These include memory loss, especially in young people, depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia and others discussed below.
  • copper toxicity symptoms are very similar to mercury (Dr. Cutler) – in other words, very serious.
  • the places where copper accumulates are the liver first, then the brain and the reproductive organs. because copper targets the liver, it gets in the way of heavy metal chelation using ALA and other chelators that rely on bile secretion.
  • copper and vitamin C are direct antagonists.  This means that they oppose each other in the body.  This is one reason many people feel better taking a lot of vitamin C.  Copper tends to oxidize and destroy vitamin C in the body.  Meanwhile, vitamin C chelates or removes copper from the body.  This requires a dose of vitamin C of at least about 500 mg daily, far higher than the minimum daily requirement of about 60 mg. On the other hand, two small studies in healthy, young adult men indicate that the oxidase activity of ceruloplasmin may be impaired by relatively high doses of supplemental vitamin C – I don’t know what that means but I can’t find any suggestion anywhere that vitamin C is harmful in the case of copper toxicity, just the opposite in fact: “Vitamin C can and does do miraculous things for patients afflicted with toxic levels of copper.”

Is hair testing for copper a reliable indicator of body copper?

According to Dr. Cutler, hair testing is “believed to accurately reflect body inventory” either when mineral transport is normal or deranged (when showing high/red). since all three of my hair tests have shown extreme high toxic levels of copper.

What are the possible causes of high copper?

  • adrenal weakness – low hair levels of sodium and potassium and a low ratio of sodium to potassium have been found to correlate with adrenal weakness or insufficiency.  This reduces the body’s ability to produce ceruloplasmin, and thus reduces its ability to transport and remove excess copper. Low ceruloplasmin allows unbound copper to build up in the body tissues. Definitely me.
  • drinking water – either through copper pipes or spring water that is high in copper. Neither apply to me.
  • environmental exposure – I don’t believe this applies to me
  • genetic flaws – possibly in metallothionein (MT) genes, molybdenum cofactors GPHN and MOCS1 or MOCS2, or the Wilson’s disease protein ATP7B. Here are livewello reports on my ATP7B SNPs, GPHN SNPs, and MOCS1 & 2  genes (lots of yellow and red in the first two).The ATP7B gene provides instructions for making a protein called copper-transporting ATPase 2. This protein is part of the P-type ATPase family, a group of proteins that transport metals into and out of cells by using energy stored in the molecule adenosine triphosphate (ATP). Copper-transporting ATPase 2 is found primarily in the liver, with smaller amounts in the kidneys and brain. It plays a role in the transport of copper from the liver to other parts of the body. Copper is an important part of certain enzymes that maintain normal cell functions. Copper-transporting ATPase 2 is also important for the removal of excess copper from the body.Within liver cells, copper-transporting ATPase 2 is found in a structure called the Golgi apparatus, which modifies newly produced enzymes and other proteins. Here, copper-transporting ATPase 2 supplies copper to a protein called ceruloplasmin, which transports copper to other parts of the body via the blood. If copper levels in the liver get too high, copper-transporting ATPase 2 leaves the Golgi and transfers copper to small sacs (vesicles) for elimination through bile. Bile is a substance produced by the liver that is important for digestion and the removal of waste products.
    The GPHN gene provides instructions for making a protein called gephyrin, which has two major functions in the body: the protein aids in the formation (biosynthesis) of a molecule called molybdenum cofactor, and it also plays a role in communication between nerve cells (neurons).Gephyrin performs the final two steps in molybdenum cofactor biosynthesis. Molybdenum cofactor, which contains the element molybdenum, is essential to the function of several enzymes called sulfite oxidase, aldehyde oxidase, xanthine dehydrogenase, and mitochondrial amidoxime reducing component (mARC). These enzymes help break down (metabolize) different substances in the body, some of which are toxic if not metabolized.
  • liver sluggishness or toxicity – yes, this probably applies to me or did. I’m confident I’m well on my way to fixing this one.
  • mercury toxicity – derangement of mineral transport by mercury is closely associated with copper accumulation (Dr. Cutler). I believe I’m one of those cases discussed by Dr. Cutler with hidden mercury, I have the symptoms and patterns but the mercury doesn’t show on the hair test. Also my significant lead increases the toxicity of the Mercury I do have by 18 times.
  • plant-based diets – that’s not me!

Can my 23andme results tell me anything about my copper problem?

promethease-conditionsI loaded my 23andme data into Promethease.com and found out that of 8 SNP’s checked, I have 6 good and 2 not classified. This report cost five dollars and is really really interesting. Here are a few tidbits from my report showing how awesome I will be once I detoxify my body:

  • “You are part of the 12% of the population who can lose weight with any type of exercise”
  • “Any diet works for you”
  • “Better performing muscles. Likely sprinter. This genotype indicates better performing muscles, particularly for sprinting and power sports.
  • “Better odds of living to 100”
  • “Optimistic and empathetic; handle stress well The one in four subjects who inherited a variation in this allele called G/G were significantly better at accurately reading the emotions of others by observing their faces than were the remaining three-quarters of subjects, who had inherited either a pair of A’s or an A and a G from their parents at this site. . . . also less likely to startle when blasted by a loud noise, or to become stressed at the prospect of such a noise. And by their own reports, the G/G subjects were mellower and more attuned to other people than were the A/As or A/Gs.”

Now, let’s see what Livewello.com can tell me…

ATP7B GENE [ WILSON’S DISEASE ].
SNP rsID Minor Allele Genotype Phenotype
ATP7B rs1051332 T CT +/-
ATP7B rs1061472 C CT +/-
ATP7B rs17076111 C TT -/-
ATP7B rs1801243 C AC +/-
ATP7B rs1801246 T CC -/-
ATP7B rs1801248 T CC -/-
ATP7B rs1801249 A AG +/-
ATP7B rs1924609 G AG +/-
ATP7B rs2147363 T GG -/-
ATP7B rs2277447 T CC -/-
ATP7B rs2277448 G GT +/-
ATP7B rs2282057 A AG +/-
ATP7B rs2296246 A AC +/-
ATP7B rs3825526 A AC +/-
ATP7B rs3825527 G AG +/-
ATP7B rs41292782 A GG -/-
ATP7B rs4943046 G AG +/-
ATP7B rs59120265 C TT -/-
ATP7B rs60986317 A GG -/-
ATP7B rs61733679 T CC -/-
ATP7B rs61733680 C TT -/-
ATP7B rs72552259 T CC -/-
ATP7B rs732071 G AG +/-
ATP7B rs7321909 C CT +/-
ATP7B rs732774 C CT +/-
ATP7B rs7334118 C TT -/-
ATP7B rs747781 C CT +/-
ATP7B rs754610 A AG +/-
ATP7B rs76151636 T NG
ATP7B rs9526812 C CT +/-
ATP7B rs9526814 G GT +/-
ATP7B rs9526816 C TT -/-
ATP7B rs9535794 A GG -/-
ATP7B rs9535809 T CC -/-
ATP7B rs9535828 A AG +/-

 

COPPER – GPHN
SNP rsID Minor Allele Genotype Phenotype
GPHN rs10129827 A AG +/-
GPHN rs10135117 T GG -/-
GPHN rs10138952 G AG +/-
GPHN rs10141815 G AG +/-
GPHN rs10141952 A GG -/-
GPHN rs10142288 T CC -/-
GPHN rs10144870 G AA -/-
GPHN rs10147954 C TT -/-
GPHN rs10148212 C AC +/-
GPHN rs11158646 G GT +/-
GPHN rs11621555 C TT -/-
GPHN rs11623598 T CC -/-
GPHN rs11848862 C AA -/-
GPHN rs12101156 G AA -/-
GPHN rs12433426 A CC -/-
GPHN rs1274047 G AA -/-
GPHN rs17103913 G AG +/-
GPHN rs17182886 C AA -/-
GPHN rs17183406 C TT -/-
GPHN rs17827735 G GT +/-
GPHN rs189266339 T NG
GPHN rs1952070 G AG +/-
GPHN rs1952337 A AC +/-
GPHN rs1955609 G GG +/+
GPHN rs1955611 T GG -/-
GPHN rs34259545 C NG
GPHN rs3784077 C AA -/-
GPHN rs4605098 A AG +/-
GPHN rs6573710 A AC +/-
GPHN rs7142068 T CT +/-
GPHN rs7142841 G GT +/-
GPHN rs7149265 C CT +/-
GPHN rs7154905 G AG +/-
GPHN rs7157922 C AA -/-
GPHN rs7159063 T CT +/-
GPHN rs7160476 T CT +/-
GPHN rs7161698 C CT +/-
GPHN rs74393480 G NG
GPHN rs8014841 G AG +/-
GPHN rs8018159 T GG -/-
GPHN rs8020095 A AA +/+
GPHN rs928553 C CT +/-
GPHN rs9323491 G AG +/-
Legend
-/- Neither chromosome carries a genetic variation. Green does not mean “normal”. It only means that the genotype does not contain the less common allele.)
+/- Heterozygous i.e a chromosome from one parent, carries a variation (Yellow does not mean “abnormal”. It only means that the genotype contains 1 copy of the less common allele.)
+/+ Homozygous i.e a chromosome from each parent carries a variation. (Red does not mean “abnormal”. It only means that the genotype contains 2 copies of the less common allele.)

 

Report notes:

Wilson disease protein is associated with ATP7B gene [1]
Wilson disease protein (WND), also known as ATP7B protein, is a copper-transporting P-type ATPase which is encoded by the ATP7B gene. ATP7B protein locates in trans-Golgi network of liver and brain, balances the copper level in the body by excrete excess copper into bile and plasma.

Genetic disorder of ATP7B gene may cause Wilson’s disease, a disease in which copper accumulates in tissues leading to neurological or psychiatric issues and liver diseases.

Wilson disease happens when accumulation of copper inside the liver causes mitochondrial damage and cell destruction and shows symptoms of hepatic disease. Then, the loss of excretion of copper in bile leads to an increasing concentration of copper level in urine and causes kidney problems. Therefore, symptoms of Wilson disease could be various including kidney disease and neurological disease.[8] The major cause is the malfunction of ATP7B[8] by single base pair mutations, deletions, frame-shifts, splice errors in ATP7B gene.[1]

So, we can see in my case, 51% of the 35 ATP7B genes checked by this report have genetic variations – maybe I should consider copper chelation with pharmaceuticals… And there’s more:

The GPHN gene provides instructions for making a protein called gephyrin, which has two major functions in the body: the protein aids in the formation (biosynthesis) of a molecule called molybdenum cofactor, and it also plays a role in communication between nerve cells (neurons). Gephyrin performs the final two steps in molybdenum cofactor biosynthesis. Molybdenum cofactor, which contains the element molybdenum, is essential to the function of several enzymes called sulfite oxidase, aldehyde oxidase, xanthine dehydrogenase, and mitochondrial amidoxime reducing component (mARC). These enzymes help break down (metabolize) different substances in the body, some of which are toxic if not metabolized. Gephyrin also plays an important role in neurons. Communication between neurons depends on chemicals called neurotransmitters. To relay signals, a neuron releases neurotransmitters, which attach to receptor proteins on neighboring neurons. Gephyrin anchors certain receptor proteins to the correct location in neurons so that the receptors can receive the signals relayed by neurotransmitters.

GPHN gene mutations cause a disorder called molybdenum cofactor deficiency. This disorder is characterized by seizures that begin early in life and brain dysfunction that worsens over time (encephalopathy); the condition is usually fatal by early childhood. At least two mutations in the GPHN gene have been found to cause a form of the disorder designated type C or complementation group C. This is the rarest form of the condition, affecting only a small number of individuals. The GPHN gene mutations involved in molybdenum cofactor deficiency likely reduce or eliminate the function of gephyrin. The known mutations impair gephyrin’s ability to perform one or both of the final two steps of molybdenum cofactor biosynthesis. Without the cofactor, the metabolic enzymes that rely on it cannot function. The resulting loss of enzyme activity leads to buildup of certain chemicals, including sulfite, S-sulfocysteine, xanthine, and hypoxanthine, and low levels of another chemical called uric acid. (Testing for these chemicals can help in the diagnosis of this condition.) Sulfite, which is normally broken down by sulfite oxidase, is toxic, especially to the brain. Researchers suggest that damage caused by the abnormally high levels of sulfite (and possibly other chemicals) leads to encephalopathy, seizures, and the other features of molybdenum cofactor deficiency.

How do people lower copper and treat copper toxicity?

This is how I lowered copper the first time, in between my first and second hair tests:

  • 50 mg zinc three times a day with meals, 150 mg per day zinc total
  • 1 mg molybdenum three times a day with meals, 3 mg molybdenum total
  • stopped consuming outrageous quantities of high copper foods
  • DMSA chelation – probably not a very significant factor based on comments by Andy Cutler.

Some additional things I’m considering now include:

Here are the copper chelators:

  • BAL – toxic
  • DMSA – works through the kidneys and increases excretion of copper minimally according to Dr. Cutler
  • DMPS – I tried this and reacted badly to it even at low quantities (maybe because it was pulling loads of copper)
  • D-penicillamine (DPA)
  • triethylenetetraamine (Trientine)
  • tetrathiomolybdate (TTM) – still experimental. I got very excited about it at first but then read about some sheep whose lives were saved from copper poisoning – but the sheep died a few years later and were found to have high TTM concentrations in their glands.

Studies of excretion of Cu from sweat and urine and found that sweat is the most efficient way of eliminating Cu from the body – apparently 100x more Cu eliminated from sweat than from urine. This would be very exciting for me if I were not exercise and heat intolerant!

I’m not too interested in DPA and Trientine considering the side effects. Who wants to mess with new risky substances when minerals like zinc and molybdenum can do the job?

What does Andy Cutler say about high copper?

First, there are almost 3 pages about copper in Andy Cutler’s book titled Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities and I found it all very interesting and useful. after reading it, my conclusion is that I’m probably a typical case of someone with mercury toxicity, weak adrenals and weak liver all contributing to copper accumulation.
Rereading HTI, I can see that I made a number of predictable mistakes:
  • stopped taking high doses of zinc and molybdenum prematurely
  • while chelating with ALA (which reduces copper excretion in bile)
  • and tested for copper too infrequently

This is why you really want a coach to help you through chelation if you can afford it. I goofed!

A few excerpts and other comments made by Dr. Cutler:

  • “the half-life of copper in the body is about a month. As copper excretion bile is reduced, the half-life lengthens. Interventions to modify copper body burden take more or less a month . . . to show their beneficial effects.”
  • “Zinc inhibits copper absorption as does vitamin C.”
  • “Supplements that increase bile flow will increase copper excretion.”
  • Copper toxic people who don’t have mercury have “normal looking” hair analyses with high copper. People with high copper and high mercury probably aren’t making enough bile and need to pay attention to getting their liver to do this.”

What can I learn on FDC about high copper?

 “I went to the Pfeiffer Treatment Center who specialize in copper problems last March. Andy talks about them in his book. . . Here is what Pfieffer put me on to bring down copper:
  • B6- 100 mgs. 2x day
  • B5- 500 mgs. 2x day
  • Vitamin C- I take 1000 mgs. 5x day
  • Vitamin E- 400 is’s 2x day
  • Vitamin A- 20,000 iu’s per day”

Why did my copper fall dramatically from test 1 to test 2?

I believe it was due to:

  • 50 mg zinc three times a day with meals, 150 mg per day zinc total
  • 1 mg molybdenum three times a day with meals, 3 mg molybdenum total
  • stopped consuming outrageous quantities of high copper foods

Why did my copper climb again?

I foolishly stopped taking the high quantities of zinc and molybdenum before testing to make sure my copper was down all the way to healthy levels. I did this because Dr. Cutler talks about how fast copper drops and recommends hair testing once a year roughly. He might say somewhere to test more frequently with high copper but if so, I failed to pay attention. I assumed that my low copper diet would do the trick after seeing my good progress on the first test. You know what they say about assumptions.

On the other hand… there is this guy Fernando who has been getting tested for three years and his copper and mercury levels have been going up steadily at the same time as he has been feeling better and better through nutritional balancing. He’s saying that the hair test copper going up shows that his detox is working. My situation is probably a mixed one.

How badly did I screw up?

Badly enough that I wanted to cry and didn’t sleep the first night after receiving my results. I might have prolonged my suffering by close to a year. On the other hand, it’s very possible I would not have discovered liver and colon cleansing and maybe most importantly oxygen therapy. These are therapies that will help me have a more complete recovery and I’m certain will benefit my family in powerful ways as well.

How about a little entertainment here too:

There exists a high copper personality Positive traits include a warm, caring, sensitive, emotional nature, often with artistic orientation and a child-like quality.  Often high-copper people are young-looking.  Many traditionally feminine traits are associated with copper such as softness, gentleness and intuitiveness.

Do I really want to lose my personality? Imagine my wife’s surprise when I turn into an athlete and a jerk after my recovery!

What should I do now?

I’ve already gone back on the high molybdenum/zinc protocol and also removed mushrooms, avocado and kale from my diet. This time, I’m not going to stop this protocol until I have proof that my copper is in range.

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  • avatar

    Dorothy September 29, 2016, 4:19 am

    Hi Eric,

    Thank you for sharing your journey here. I’m in a somewhat similar situation to you: I finished 200 rounds of chelating for mercury in May and started slowly reducing supplements, thinking I was finished and could finally try to get off of HC.
    I finally managed to get all of my iron values up a little too high as of April, so my doc recommended I stop them completely since I’m menopausal. Since then I have become increasingly fatigued and emotional.

    My original hair test 7 years ago showed low copper, but three blood tests with zinc and ceruloplasmin over the last 2 years showed high total and free copper. While the free copper has come down from 40% 2 years ago to 31% this month, my total copper has crept up.

    The thing that shocked me was that my iron and % sat had plummeted since April. I have found some information that leads me to believe it is because my free copper is still too high.

    I’m starting on dietary changes as well, but wanted to ask if you know if the regimen Pfieffer put you on is relatively generic for reducing copper, or is it specific to you in some way? I’m already taking all of those things (except the Vit E which I slowly stopped after May), just in much lower doses.

    Thanks,

    Dorothy

    • avatar

      Eric October 3, 2016, 11:48 pm

      Hi Dorothy, you and I are not in the same league because you are a master of chelation. 200 rounds? Did I read that right? Wow. How much did it help you?

      I never attended the Pfeiffer center, just copied the recommendations from someone who did attend for high copper…

  • avatar

    chris September 16, 2016, 8:58 am

    hello eric.

    are you aware of the website ‘acu cell’?….they are saying chromium is the most important remedy for copper toxicity closely followed by sulfur(msm)…….and then vit c molybdenum b6 etc……they say ‘zinc is the weakest of all the copper antagonists’…and that zinc only affects copper in the intestine and not the organs with the bio-unavailable copper!..

    your thought on that?

    i was taking 200 mg zinc picolinate(sometimes adding an extra 70 mg ionic liquid zinc)..2 mg molybdenum..b6(p5p) daily for a few months but noticed no improvement of symptoms.

    i recently started adding 400-800 mcg chromium chelate to the above and it gave me terrible insomnia(only at the higher 600-800 mcg dose and on the same day of taking)…a previously sensitive tooth became a nasty toothache and i had a facial skin rash…i could feel an occasional kind of pulsing movement through both kidneys but no pain fortunately and i could feel some kind of heaviness in my liver also..

    i noticed previously that high pure food vitamin c(10 grams camu camu powder and about 1300 mg vitc)the highest vit c content of any fruit in the world) when added to the zinc/moly/p5p also gave me worse insomnia after a week of taking…..and so did taking msm at 1 -2 grams with the zinc/moly/b6 after just 2 days..

    i have learnt that copper affects negatively both b6 and magnesium and both of these are needed in plentiful supply for serotonin/ melatonin production and thus sleep!.

    event though i stopped taking all supplements after getting the recent worse insomnia after adding chromium chelate the insomnia continued for several days until i took 4 grams of magnesium citrate one night last week (after waking after just 2 hours sleep and not being ab;e to go back to sleep yet again) and i was able to go back to sleep and that has continued since with my daily magnesium citrate intake…

    since taking the chromium i have noticed an improvement in my occasional pins and needles/slight numbness in my right fingertips(which started right after supplementing zinc with added copper after just 4 days about 2 years ago)..

    my other symptoms of copper toxicity are chronic sinus infection.loss of sex drive and insomnia(wake up 2-3 times during 5 hours sleep)before i remedied my b12 deficiency(also linked with serotonin/melotonin) i would wake up with a jolt and could never go back to sleep..

    soon i will experiment with vit c and msm again but this time i will be taking 4 grams magnesium citrate dailty and it will be interesting to see if the magnesium this time prevents my worsening insomnia at the same vit c and msm doses that previously gave me the insomnia..

    i am still a bit wary of chromium as it had such a powerful effect on me the other week and i wonder about any toxicity but it may well be justl be copper dumping?… my.toothache and the other effects have completely gone..

    i hope what i mention here helps you on your journey back to health..

    • avatar

      Eric September 17, 2016, 3:12 pm

      hey Chris, thanks for sharing that – I have read many of those pages before but has been a long time and I may not have paid careful attention. I already take 1 mg chromium but it’s the GTF form so I will switch to chelated! let’s see what happens 🙂

      I’ve never noticed any effect other than an increase in fatigue which I attributed to the blood sugar affect from chromium…

      • avatar

        chris September 17, 2016, 5:34 pm

        hi eric…….according to acu cell the gtf chromium is in the 1-3% uptake range but the chelated form is closer to 25%….thats a big differance when you think about it…

        whats amazed me with the chromium chelate is that when i was taking it for a few days or so in total it caused a severe toothache in a previously roughly year old sensitive molar but now that molar isnt even sensitive anymore…

        maybe stored bio-unavailable copper in gum tissue was causing the sensitivity in the first place and then taking chromium stirred up more copper to cause the toothache and now days after stopping the chromium the copper is out of my bloodstream and gum tissue and back in organs?..

        i hope the chelate form works out for you..

  • avatar

    Cristina September 10, 2016, 8:43 pm

    Hi Eric again . I was wondering if you tried consulting with connie fox about mercury and whether you used her protocol? I am looking into less drastic methods than dmps for mercury.

    • avatar

      Eric September 11, 2016, 5:34 pm

      I never used any mercury consultant, just followed Dr. Cutler’s protocol – but too aggressively and without paying close attention to his advice about copper, which is reduce the copper burden before chelating mercury!

  • avatar

    James July 6, 2016, 12:08 am

    Hi,

    I have been in dealing with my hair analysis report in the past few years and would like to offer you my experience for heavy metals detox. I use Celantro for eight months and my hair analysis report shows very good results.
    http://ca.iherb.com/product-reviews/Planetary-Herbals-Cilantro-Heavy-Metal-Detox-4-fl-oz-118-28-ml/20830/?p=1

    Another thing I suggest you to read Dr. L. Wilson for using zinc to reduce copper. Even your copper is very high, it still need zinc to copper 10:1 as supplements (not without copper at all).
    http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

    Hope this helps.

    James

    • avatar

      Eric July 10, 2016, 6:02 pm

      Thanks James, I do take 60 mg of zinc daily along with lots of other copper lowering supplements…

  • avatar

    Dana July 2, 2016, 6:38 pm

    Eric …your a bit off base …ive tried to explain this before…u wont ever stop the minerals …u will always need them …but your taking too high of doses….and your throwing other key nutrients out of whack …and your mussing several things ….u have to find all your deficiencies…have u tested manganese rbc for example ??? Which is lowered by high dose zinc and is needed to produce dopamine in low doses …and makes digestive enzymes …and also detoxes copper …..i think you have abit of tunnel vision …theres several key nutrients that lower copper …r u taking b2? Do u have mao on genetic test ?? Do u need l carnitine for the mitochondrial defects you may be carrying ….which also lowers copper and increases acetylcholine …so many other key things you havent addressed yet !

    • avatar

      Eric July 2, 2016, 11:50 pm

      Dana, you sound irritated with me for dawdling my way through copper detox… Well, reading just one one of my blog posts might give you tunnel vision of your own. I’m taking the full spectrum of copper lowering supplements and have been titrating up manganese with monthly rbc tests, yes I’ve tried carnitine and a few other mitochondrial supplements with no results.

  • avatar

    Martine July 1, 2016, 8:22 am

    Hoi Eric, I saw you run your ATP7B gene on livewello, I wanted to look at it but I can’t open it, is it possible for you to past you results here? I have the same problems with my two sons and I run the ATP7B gene for the youngest and he had 7 homozyguos mutations.for the ATP7B genen. So , I read a lot aboucoper defiency (because that is what it is) and copperoverload (the other toxic part) the last days and I am more and more convinced that it has to do with a genetic defect. Have you been checked on Wilson disease by a doctor specialized in metabolic disorders ?

    • avatar

      Eric July 1, 2016, 4:01 pm

      Hi Martine, I logged into Livewello and searched on ATP7B and got this result “A genotype for atp7b was not found in Eric S’s genetic raw data.”

      How did you get your children’s results for that gene?

      I don’t think I’ve been fully checked for Wilson’s disease no I have had all of the tests recommended by Morley Robbins for copper toxicity…

      • avatar

        Martine July 1, 2016, 7:03 pm

        Have you done the 23andmetest ? it’s that test that I have done . You have to run the results of 23andme in livewello in “MY GENE TEMPLATES” than type Wilson or ATP7B (not ATP7 A: for this gene my son had no results )then install gene template and then view report (I THink) . Here you can find a lot of info about Wilson, I think you need to check for Wilson:
        http://www.eurowilson.com/en/living/guide/pathway/index.phtml
        here you can find info about copper that is very valuable: I think that this genetic inability to bind copper is very very underestimated and maybe there’re many Wilson patients under these so called heavy metal poisoned , autism, CFS/ME .or may be Wilson “light= not real Wilson , so an ability that is disabled but functions to bind a little copper perhaps??”.The problem is that you’re short in bound copper (ceruloplasmin) with many consequenses (impaired SOD, immunity, yeast,…)and on the other hand you’ve unbound copper overload which is toxic to the body
        :http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/minerals/copper

        • avatar

          Eric July 2, 2016, 5:09 pm

          Well, that is an eye-opener Martine! I installed the Wilsons template in Livewello and found 51% of the 35 genes checked are +/- so I just went back and reread this old post and updated it with my livewello ATP7B results and links to copper chelation options. This new information has me thinking about trying DMPS again – I especially like the fact that it is also effective for mercury and lead. I think I gave up too easily and should have tried again with lower amounts. What are you doing for your kids?

          • avatar

            Martine July 4, 2016, 9:03 am

            Hoi Eric, I am going to study your new results and run the extra reports concerning copper. I will have my sons checked at the Leuven university hospital for Wilson (they are an offical hospital for diagnosin g Wilson disease) and see what comes out of that. I will let you know, kind greatings ,Martine

            • avatar

              Eric July 4, 2016, 3:14 pm

              Thanks Martine… Yesterday I realized that I had actually run that ATP7B template long ago and just forgot about it entirely. Need to reread my own blog posts once a year or so lol. Looking forward to hearing from you as you learn more.

  • avatar

    Betsy June 6, 2016, 12:34 pm

    Have you considered taking borax? I agree that Vitamin C is essential for copper detox, but I am thinking that borax is needed along with it.

    I haven’t found a concrete explanation yet, maybe you can help with that part. If you are interested I can give some of the reasons that I am thinking this.

    • avatar

      Eric June 12, 2016, 9:58 pm

      I take boron instead of borax… I’d guess they are roughly equivalents. I can’t remember precisely why but it’s recommended by all of the copper experts.

  • avatar

    Eduardo May 25, 2016, 6:19 pm

    I have many symptons of Copper excess but dont have money to do hair tests. And I have this sympton:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayser%E2%80%93Fleischer_ring

    do you have?

    • avatar

      Eric May 30, 2016, 10:00 pm

      I don’t have the Fleischer rings Eduardo and I’m guessing that might be a sign to consider copper chelation using a pharmaceutical method… I’m not an expert though so please research and be careful.

  • avatar

    Andrew May 21, 2016, 2:36 am

    Look in to Dr. Klinghardt, he states that homeopathic copper is needed and leads to redistribution and makes the copper bio available again

    • avatar

      Eric June 1, 2016, 12:15 am

      thanks Andrew

  • avatar

    Cheri May 12, 2016, 5:01 pm

    Possibility of pyrrole disorder for high copper?? Wondered if you’d heard and if it may apply to you?? It’s genetic but the genes haven’t been identified as yet. My daughter has it and it affects the adrenals and causes lots of problems with energy and thoughts. But people with it are very creative personality wise.

    • avatar

      Cheri May 12, 2016, 5:10 pm

      Should mention that B6 and zinc are necessary to bring the copper down and into normal range. The pyrroles bind up the zinc in the body and it’s removed through normal processes, so zinc deficiency is a sign of pyrrole disorder. Plus, B6 is needed as it is depleted, also with the copper. Pyrrole disorder can lead to social anxiety and wanting to stay at home and isolate in a dark place. It can lead to schizophrenia like symptoms.
      https://www.drlam.com/blog/pyroluria-and-adrenal-fatigue-syndrome/5273/

    • avatar

      Eric May 18, 2016, 11:01 pm

      Pretty sure I was tested for that years ago… Thanks Cheri

"...nothing ever goes away
until it has taught us
what we need to know.
"
-Pema Chodron

"God, whose law it is that all who learn must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget, falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God."
-Aeschylus

About


My name is Eric - I‘m 46 and saw a doctor for fatigue at 17. I lived fairly normally if a little subdued by lack of endurance at times. But then, 12 years ago I fell into a nosedive after moving to South Florida. Now, I know heavy metal toxicity is a significant source of my troubles along with genetic methylation cycle dysfunction. I spent 18 months chelating the metals out and starting up methylation but stopped when I felt myself circling the drain. Currently doing liver, colon, kidney and parasite cleanses. More about me here.

Timeline and current dosing:

Rounds completed: 29
Total chelation days: 125
Dose: 25 mg DMSA and 25 mg ALA every 3 hrs

* supplements
* hair test
* genetics
* lessons learned

"Battles are won in their darkest hours. Wars are won by learning something from each battle."
-Eric

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