My bottomless methylation pit

My last redistribution day was really interesting –  the round had been too difficult and I gave up early.  I was expecting a really terrible redistribution day,  so I took two additional capsules of Mercola’s liposomal vitamin C (which contains lecithin) and some extra magnesium.

Out of laziness,  I took an additional 600 mg  sunflower lecithin. In the past I’ve been very sensitive to lecithin, so I freeze the gel caps  and cut them in half to reduce my doses. but on this day, I had run out of halves  and was too lazy to cut more,  so I took a whole gel cap instead of a half at dinner further raising my lecithin increase for the day.

My energy level was much higher than expected during the day and I attributed it to the additional lipo-C  at first.  But then, in the evening I realized I was much warmer than usual  and had a strong case of muggy-head and dry lips.  I realized I was experiencing  all the signs of a methylation increase.  That’s when I remembered that choline is a  significant methyl donor.  This is what the NIH says about it:

Humans ingest approximately 50 mmol of methyl groups per day; 60% of them are derived from choline. Transmethylation metabolic pathways closely interconnect choline, methionine, methyltetrahydrofolate (methyl-THF) and vitamins B-6 and B-12.

It seems I’m a bottomless pit for methyl  groups –  this really took me by surprise because I’ve been taking 800 mg of SAMe  and around 2000 mg of lecithin daily for months.

For anyone interested in reading more about  lecithin and choline, not only is it recommended by Dr. Cutler and Fred, it’s part of another protocol called Phospholipid Replacement Therapy.  Coincidentally, there’s a thread evolving now on Phoenix rising about it. Apparently, you can buy fancy supplements for this but I suspect it’s just lecithin with some re-branding. Or maybe a combination of all the fatty acids I’m  taking on the Cutler  protocol.

Anyway,  I’m trying to continue my lecithin increases and so far so good.

 

 

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  • avatar

    Michael (NW) November 13, 2015, 9:29 pm

    Hi Eric,

    How are things going these days? I’m a undermethlyator. I have MTRR++, etc…. I’ve read that choline is not good for undermethlyators. Something to do with it possibly increasing OCD. I’ve read that choline is antidopaminergic which is where it could cause some depression. But, one of my ND’s said that they were giving me enough dopamine percursors so that it shouldn’t cause a problem. (Tyrosine, mucuna, etc…). Sunflower Lecithin isn’t all choline, it also contains Phosphatidylcholine, Phosphatidylethanolamine, Phosphatidyl Inositol, Phosphatidic Acid, and Linoleic Acid. So, not sure how Phosphatidylcholine works with dopamine as compared to standard choline bitartrate.

    Phospholipids I think are good for the brain, and many other things. I’m just concerned about any antidopaminergic effect. Have you run across any info about that?

    Cheers.

    • avatar

      Eric November 15, 2015, 7:18 pm

      hi Michael, I don’t know anything about the antidopaminergic effect, but I do know that the lecithin doesn’t bother me at my current dosage and I much prefer to avoid the fatty liver and crippled detox system that comes from lecithin deficiency…

  • avatar

    Julie October 23, 2015, 10:41 pm

    Hello Eric,

    I came across this blog post when I was doing background research for a recent interview we did at The Quantified Body with Dr. Garth Nicolson discussing “How to Repair Mitochondria with Lipid Replacement”. Very much appreciated.

    As our interviews and podcast episodes are very in depth, I thought you may find what we covered useful: https://thequantifiedbody.net/repair-mitochondria-lipid-replacement-garth-nicolson-phd/

    If you have any thoughts or feedback, I would love to hear them.

    Otherwise thanks again for your work.

    Best regards,
    Julie

  • avatar

    Elizabeth March 13, 2015, 5:37 am

    Hi Eric I use the sunflower lecithin also. How high are you wanting to go with the doseage of lecithin? (just an aside – I’ve read it can cause depression in some – (choline) – I use the lecithin that’s not in caps and took some larger doses last week and felt very flat for a few days………….had no idea why………

    • avatar

      Eric March 14, 2015, 3:56 pm

      I’ve stopped taking extra lecithin now because I’m getting a whole lot from liposomal vitamin C and liposomal glutathione. Haven’t calculated how much but I’m sure it’s plenty. I also eat three eggs a day so I’m loaded up. Definitely doesn’t cause depression for me.

  • avatar

    Helen September 24, 2014, 5:07 pm

    Been taking liposomal vitamin C too and just started methylB12 and felt horribly nervous, like I was on overdrive. Thought if anything, vitamin C might block absorption of B12, but I could have been increasing the effects? Felt need to also limit leafy greens. These have methyl-groups too I think.

    • avatar

      Eric September 24, 2014, 5:17 pm

      that nervousness is very common Helen – you may want to start with a lower amount if it’s not tolerable…

  • avatar

    Dot February 18, 2014, 12:11 am

    Hey Eric, here’s a question…how do you know when methylation starts? How do you know if it’s working or not? Does it stop and start? Dumb, I know, but I can’t figure it out. 
    Thanks!

    • avatar

      Eric February 18, 2014, 12:17 am

      I feel it – nearly the same symptoms every time I increase a methylation related supplement. For me, it means I have more energy and start making lists of things I need to do and getting them done. At the same time, I have an increase in fatigue. I know that’s counterintuitive but that’s where the “wired and tired” label comes in. In the afternoon I get muggy-headed. Slow thinking and confused and feel a little unwell. Kind of the way you feel in your head when you have the flu, wanting to crawl up on the couch. In the evening, I’m feeling better mentally but feeling warmer than usual, especially my hands and feet. Then, during the night I often don’t sleep well, waking after just an hour and a half or two hours. I go back to sleep but the quality is not good… I may have forgotten some things but those are the principal signs for me.

      • avatar

        Dot February 18, 2014, 3:06 am

        Thanks for the reply. I’m only taking mfolate and mb12, but am feeling some of those same things. Guessing it’s “normal”?  keep going? 
        Thanks!

        • avatar

          Eric February 18, 2014, 3:35 pm

          Yes, keep going, those are good signs and all should fade away in time if you hold the dose steady. then you’re ready for higher doses:)

  • avatar

    mary February 17, 2014, 2:58 am

    Eric, I’m confused – you have been taking 2000 mg of lecithin daily for months, and yet 600 mg sent you into over methylation?  Or do you mean an additional 600 above and beyond 2000 already taken that day?  

    • avatar

      Eric February 17, 2014, 3:14 pm

      Sorry about the confusion Mary. It’s a little difficult to explain because the Lipo-C doesn’t specify exactly how much lecithin is in each capsule, so I am estimating. But basically I have been taking around 2000 mg every day, and I took an additional 600 mg above and beyond. I have been able to maintain that higher amount since that day too. I’m also planning on continuing to increase it.

"...nothing ever goes away
until it has taught us
what we need to know.
"
-Pema Chodron

"God, whose law it is that all who learn must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget, falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God."
-Aeschylus

About


My name is Eric - I‘m 48 and saw a doctor for fatigue at 17. I lived fairly normally if a little subdued by lack of endurance at times. But then, 12 years ago I fell into a nosedive after moving to South Florida. Now, I know heavy metal toxicity is a significant source of my troubles along with genetic methylation cycle dysfunction and Lyme disease. I spent 18 months chelating the metals out and starting up methylation but stopped when I felt myself circling the drain. Currently going after Lyme and co-infections. More about me here.

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"Battles are won in their darkest hours. Wars are won by learning something from each battle."
-Eric

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